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 Post subject: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 4:15 pm 
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The book of Wilhelm Dörpfeld "Alt-Ithaka" fell recently in my hands and I got very interested in the whole topic. I also have read your book, presenting Paliki as the Homeland of Odysseus. The question I got now is, why are you competely rejecting the idea of Leukas being the lost fourth island of Homer? Are there any strong arguments against I am not aware of? (Except the one, Leukas wasn't considered an island in Homer's era)

Georgios Kolivas
Darmstadt, Germany


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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:57 pm 
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I think the main issue is that Leukas doesn't fit the description given by the poet in the "Odissey", as Ithaca is "low-lying and the furthest to the west".
Leukas is not an island and it's in the north of the Ionian archipelago while Paliki, if proven a former island, fits these postulates (and more) all. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Two weeks ago we visited the islands of the Ionian Sea and also Lefkas. We visited the grave of Wilhelm Dörpfeld and noted that he is still remembered and honoured on Lefkas. On the other islands we found streets named after him.
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Last edited by Marinus on Mon Jun 27, 2011 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Although I knew where to find it, I almost didn't notice it.
The picture was taken last September, and as you can see, I was there with "Alt-Ithaka" in my hands.
Still, I am not convinced that Paliki is Ithaca. You're taking the hint, that "Ithaca lies furthest to the west" to literally.
Moreover, your equalisation of Leukas with Dulichion is more than discussable, but it needed to be constructed this way, to find your Asteris and Same.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:59 am 
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spartan1967 wrote:
I think the main issue is that Leukas doesn't fit the description given by the poet in the "Odissey", as Ithaca is "low-lying and the furthest to the west".
Leukas is not an island and it's in the north of the Ionian archipelago while Paliki, if proven a former island, fits these postulates (and more) all. :P



"low-lying"/ χθαμαλή could also be understood as lying next to the mainland. The route of Telemachos to Pylos was in Homer's time considered to be a west-east one, not a north-south. In Od.2, 421 Athene is sending Telemachos a west-wind (!), not a north-wind.

Okay, Leukas is not seen as one of the four homeric islands by the authors ;)


Last edited by GeorgiosKolivas on Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:30 pm 
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Dear Georgios,
just to summarize what I understood reading the book, I think that:
1. the real key to the comprehension of those lines are the words "the furthest to the west". This should be the main clue against Leukas as the Ithaki of the Odissey.
2. the author is supposing the "modern" Ithaki as the ancient Doulichion;
3. the "strong westerly following wind" of the poem (Telemachos' voyage to Pylos, Peloponnese) is described as the condition to get out from the main port of Ithaki/Paliki without rowing. The route follewed by the son of Odisseus should be, in this case, from NW to SE (remember, anyway, please, that at that time the greek sailors were used to follow the coast lines not the straight routes);
4. the one suggested by Bittlestone really does seem to have very strong points, but we need to wait for the results of the drills.
Anyway, this year I'll be in Kefallonia for the third time in three years... but this time I'll be driving through Leukas heading for Apollionoi. The most important thing, to me, is to breathe Odisseus and his poems in all those landscapes... :P


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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Dear all,

Dörpfeld is indeed buried by the Geni's white church (above which is a chapel and also a cave) of Ag. Kyriaki. We had a long and interesting conversation with the older gentleman who lives on that Cape.

For me as a seaman the most important words are "low-lying", literally in the sense of "lying low". The winds are harsh and treacherous around Ithaca and I found this is related to the high mountains. Any port that has ever been important must be in low-lying lands. So this allows Argostoli Bay, Sivota, maybe Nidri (Vlycho Bay), even the bays on Meganisi, but certainly not the ports of Ithaca; Vathi, Frikes, Kioni or Polis Bay. However, two parts of the Odyssey fit remarkably well within the Wilhelm Dörpfeld "Alt-Ithaka" theory - the only other explanation being a flaw in timing: sailing or rowing from Threspotia (Od 14, 344) to Ithaca cannot be done within the time span of one day. Also sailing from Paleokastritsi (Corfu, Scheria, Od 13, 93) to Ithaca, about the same distance of 160 nautical miles, is a bit much for a day trip. Both voyages are only realistic within the Dörpfelds' theory.

Below some pictures taken at Vathi, Ithaca, two weeks ago:
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If this cloud is above the mountain at Vathi, it will be stormy weather for two days.


Last edited by Marinus on Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 92 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why not considering Leukas as the Homeland?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:00 pm
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Marinus photographed at the presumed location of the palace on the low-lying island; this is not low-lying in any interpretation of the word low-lying. The excavation is impressive though; the building stones are truly cyclopic!
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